Suppose a man with no knowledge of God, the Gospel, Jesus, or the Bible is shipwrecked and washes up on a deserted island. He has plenty of food, water, and shelter. However, his only luxury is a complete copy of the Bible (you pick the translation for the story). He spends the next several years studying the Bible. No church, no commentary, just the Bible and God. Through reading he accepts Christ.
One day his “ship comes in” and he is rescued. Excited about his new commitment to Christ he can’t wait to get to America. He arrives on a Saturday night and awakens to go to church the following Sunday morning. He attends First Average Church of America located in Anywhere, USA. He does this for several Sunday mornings.
Here is the question. Do you think what he sees/experiences in our churches in America are similar to what he learned from the Bible while on the deserted island? Compare and contrast.
As a side thought I think the cartoon is interesting as well. If you have such an inclination comment also on the connection with churches and the feeling of “being in a wooden boat with a beaver.”
Sharpen the iron my friends.
16 comments:
I do think he would find alot of similarities between the churches of today, and what he reads about in Scripture. Now, I'm not saying the church of today is exactly what God designed it to be, but neither were the "church" examples we find in Scriture. In reading through the Bible, hopefully the gentleman would realize that he is apart of a fallen creation, a sinner in need of a Savior. Then, he can realize that church is not a museum of saints, but a hospital for sinners, thus the examples of the churches in Galatia, Thessalonica, Philippi, Corinth, etc. Now, on the other side of this coin, I do think he would find some areas that are "way-off-base". Instead of a focus on service, he'd probably be overwhelmed with a focus on self. He'd probably find more programs and less passion, more grumbling than giving, more maintaince than ministry, and I'm afraid more world than worship (sounds like I pulled this right from an aliterated sermon that I have preached). So, is the church today exactly as God had commanded, far from it, but are its faults and failures unique to this time or place, I don't think so. What scares me more about this illustration is not what he wouldn't recognize from reading the Bible, but what he would recognize: The sins of Sodom and Gamorrah, David's struggles, Jeremiah's lamenting, Peter's denial, Judas's betrayal, Corinth's immaturity, Galatia's misundstanding of Salvation by Grace, Ephesus' lack of love, Smyrna's financial strugglings, Pergamum's false teachings, Thyatira's "Jezebel", and on and on...
Brad
Phillip,
A look at the New Testament Church is an interesting thing. Just to think of what it meant in their time to even proclaim the fact that they were followers of the way. For many this announcement was met with ridicule, disownment, and sometimes even death. In our Churches today to walk an isle and make a verbal profession of faith is met with a line of people shaking our hand and patting us on the back. The point being that it is socially acceptable to be a “Christian”. In fact in the Bible belt it is expected in many places. AS LONG AS YOU DON’T LIVE OUT YOUR FAITH LIKE THE NEW TESTEMENT CHURCH DOES?
Think of these questions.
• When was the last time you saw Church discipline applied in a tough situation? – Most Christians don’t even know what this looks like or the purpose for it. (The restoration of fallen believers) - 1 Corinthians 5; 1 Timothy 5:20
• When was the last time you saw a deacon board that actually took the role of servants not a decision making board? ( The original purpose of this position was to meet physical needs so that they might free up the apostles for the proclamation of the truth)- Acts 6:1-6
• When was the last time we saw people sell everything they had and give to those as the need arose? (Money is such a huge issue in many Church settings today it is amazing to examine the sacrificial giving of the Early Church) -Acts 2:45
We could go on and on with these specifics but my point is that we have watered down our commitment and expectations for believers. I believe we have done this, in many cases (whether intentional or not) to build a bigger crowd by becoming more acceptable to carnal folks and nominal Christians.
You may think: the picture that you are trying to paint is of radical Christians doing radical things. To that I say listen to what the apostle Paul says in
Romans 12:1-" I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1, NKJV)
Paul says here because of all that Christ has done for you, you need to give Him everything (Present your body a living sacrifice), and then he says this is the only reasonable response. What God calls reasonable we have made radical. The picture I’m trying to paint is of reasonable believers, doing reasonable things, for a radical God.
We live in an age were:
Pastors are encouraged to shorten their sermons and to leave more time for fellowship,
Musical worship in many Cases has eclipsed the spoken word,
People choose their churches not on the fundamentals of the preaching but on how entertained they were that particular week.
Many Church attendees are offended that they would even be asked to give of their time or money for the cause of Christ.
And the biggest problem is we have fostered this environment of half hearted commitment by not calling believers to just have a reasonable faith. We have set the bar so low. (Just come and we will be happy) It starts with a leader who is not concerned with the head count but instead is concerned with his faithfulness to equip and challenge the Body. (-Galatians 1:10- ) We need to call God’s people to a higher commitment level.
I love and believe in the Church. I am a member and faithful supporter of my local Body. In fact I work for an organization designed to be a resource and assistance to the Church. So please don’t get me wrong here… I just believe many of our Churches could benefit from some genuine reflection and reformation.
Disclaimer:
You may be a part of a Church that does not fit into this mold at all. If so, great. When I speak of the Church I am speaking in general terms not to any specific situations.
"What God calls reasonable we call radical." INCREDIBLE STATEMENT!! I love it! I'm gonna steal it.
OUCH! What he would recognize? That is true. Great points. Hey, I wonder if he would recognize US as Christians?
This is a great question because we want to examine what he would see in church, on SUNDAY! I think this guy would show up on Sunday and think "ok this is cool and all but this is not what I see Monday-Saturday". We want to say well if he came to my church this is what he would see. I believe, if this guy came to America, he wouldnt see the "church".
Very good comments Brad and Brent and I agree with both. I would be preaching to the choir so to speak here, but it all starts with us. We can not expect our Church to change unless we do.I heard a good sermon today about reaching the lost but if nobody shows up for visitation, what did it accomplish? I gave a valiant push to get visitation going at our church a couple of months ago, but I do heating and air, so the summer is very difficult for me. Very few people came and eventually it was me and one other. I had to stop coming due to my hours I work during the Summer.People are hungry for God and they are scared to come to church. We really have to get outside the walls and know how to share our faith. During that couple of months I personally saw 3 people give their lives to Christ. I cant wait until I can start again. It is so exciting to see someone give their heart to the Lord! We are called for a purpose.
1. To be Holy as He is holy
2. To serve others as we would serve the Lord.
That is it. Love God and love people. I think we all have the love God thing down. It is the love people thing that gets us every time. It is very costly to love people. People have needs and so do our families at home. There has to be a balance. You cant serve people to the point that you are an absentee father, but you cant stop serving people or our Church will shrink. It is very easy to be totally wrapped up in family and work and then show up for Church to be hand fed for the week. I think that is the paradox of todays Church. Maybe I am off subject, but I dont think so. I think he would find most love God but are too insecure to share Christ with someone they meet or too busy to have an organized effort to make Christ known to the community.
This may go back to our "sims city" question we had a few months back, but let's try this: What are the top three areas that you see churches doing well in, as far as what Scripture has called us to be, and what are the top three areas where we have failed terribly?
Great stuff so far. I’ll echo some of your thoughts as I throw in my 2 cents worth.
PART I
GREATEST COMMANDMENT—He said, love the Lord your God with all that you have. I don’t think we are anywhere near were we need to be on this one. What’s it mean to love God? Do we love God for what He has done for us? Would we still love Him if He hadn’t done anything for us? Do I love Him because of the inheritance He has provided for me? Do we even know Him well enough to love Him?
SECOND GREATEST—Jesus then says, without being asked by the way, that the second greatest is to love people. Mmmmmm. Not so good in that area either. It seems to me, having been in church most of my life, that we love those likeable people. Next Sunday look around your church. Aren’t most of the people pretty much like you? For the most part aren’t they pretty much in the same socioeconomic category as you? Aren’t most of their skin colors the same as yours? How do we decide who we invite to church or who we visit? Aren’t they generally the people who have made some type of contact with us? I read one time that love is meeting needs. What physical needs is your church meeting? I believe we have to love people by meeting their physical needs before they will listen to us about spiritual needs?
GREAT COMMISSION—Jesus’ parting words were ‘Go!’. Not a complex word but it does necessitate action. Interestingly he didn’t say any of the following: invite, plan, analyze, form a committee, welcome, or even pray. While all these are important and probably necessary in the process of going, they are all useless in reaching others if they are taken by themselves and we never actually ‘go.’
GIVING—Why do pastors shy away from this topic? When they do preach on it they seem to always do so apologetically? In almost every sermon I have heard they always make some watered down argument for giving and tithing. Give me a break! “People give money to charity or to the church as long as it doesn’t impinge on their standard of living. If they have a little extra and it is easy and safe to give, they do so. “(Crazy Love, pg. 69). Look around at the people in a similar socioeconomic class as yours that are NOT Christ followers. If your standard of living, the car you drive, the house you live in, the clothes you wear, the places you eat, etc. is the same as theirs, then you are not sacrificially giving. I’ve heard the excuse about giving that the economy is down. Really? Drive by Wal-Mart, Lowe’s, Home Depot, Belks, Cracker Barrel, etc. Are their parking lots still full?
WORSHIP—You folks who are preachers or church leaders, what do you see on the faces each Sunday morning in your churches? “My” seat in church allows me a vantage point that I can see most of the congregation without being so obvious. The other Sunday I told my wife that if I came to church as a lost person I would leave there saying, “Whatever they have it must be bad because their faces look horrible. What God do they worship.”
PART II
ATTENDANCE—Why does attendance drop in the summer? I know, vacations. I love vacations and see nothing wrong with them. However, I don’t go on them every Sunday! Our worship services are down by what looks like at least a third EACH Sunday in summer. What about Sunday School? Have you ever tried to plan an event at church? How many “conflicts” do you run into? We can’t do anything on Saturday because baseball, soccer, football at the local ball park. How about planning an event during college football season? I love sports and I especially love college football. However, when we get to the point in our life when we can’t even miss an occasional game to attend a church function, then we are on the wrong track. What about travel ball and all stars? Again, not inherently anything wrong with youth sports. However, Sundays are no longer safe from these activities. Travel ball is taking our kids and adults out of church on Sundays. Sure, there are “ballpark ministries” that I have heard of. Give me a break! That’s called compromise. We had around 50 kids in our VBS this summer. We sit in the hub of subdivisions. In the past we have had 150+. What happened?
SIN—“People don’t really want to be saved from their sin; they want to be saved from the penalty of their sin.” (CL, pg. 70). Enough said.
NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH—I’ve heard church folk say, we want what Peter, James, and Paul experienced in Acts and become a church of Acts. Really? Wonder if they are willing to, I don’t know, DIE for the cause. That’s what they did. Are they willing to sell what they have, give much more to the church, and live off of much less. Are they willing to secretly draw the “fish symbol” on the ground in front of their houses as a code for communication to other Christians because of persecution of the church. Are they willing to move to another location because of persecution? Are they willing to become martyrs and jeopardize their American Christian way of life? Honestly, I don’t think I do. “The American church is a difficult place to fit in if you want to live out New Testament Christianity. The goals of American Christianity are often a nice marriage, children who don’t swear, and good church attendance. Taking the words of Christ literally and seriously is rarely considered….most of us want a balanced life that we can control, that is safe, and that does not involve suffering.” (CL, pg. 68).
ASSOCIATION/ORGANIZATION—According the St. Clair Baptist Association’s website we have 70 churches in our association. 70! That doesn’t count the other Christian churches in our county that are a different denomination or association. How can that be? Imagine if we came together what power we would have. Never going to happen! I remember a couple of years ago our association tried to organize a county wide mission fest. Each church community would come together for a common cause on a common day. To my knowledge it was a huge flop with only a few churches participating. The excuse I heard was “We have our own mission day” or something to that nature. Bunk!
I know I am beating the church up pretty badly. I also confess that I am part of the church that needs to be beat up. I need personal repentance in each of the above categories. But it breaks my heart at the way it appears we do things. Sure, the current church format does some good things. As my friend told me the other day, “Couldn’t we do it better!” These are eternal things we are dealing with for an eternal God that gave all that an eternal God can give!. Yet I make excuses of why I can’t love, go, or give. Changing churches begins with changing hearts.
Phillip, well said my friend. Thank you for breaking it down in "simple terms". It is by far the best thing I have read on this blog! REPENT! Doesnt that mean TURN? 180? What would happen if we did that? Really? What would my life, your life look like if we did that? What would happen if we moved? What would happen if we really did give ourselves as a "living sacrifice" Romans 12:1
we are living in a time where there is a generation of people who are so tired of believers "telling" them what to do and not "showing" them what to do. If we really cared and loved others, then why are there hungry and homeless people in our backyards that we do nothing about?
Now you can argue that there are all kinds of places where they can get help, and I have heard that forever, but if there really a place for help then why are there STILL hungry and homeless people in our backyards? What if I loved them so much, to the point where I saw them as my own family member hungry and homeless? I am so tired of my own sin, James 4:17
What do we do? REPENT and fall so in love with our savior that His life is lived through us.
Hey guys…
I know some topics have been brought up since the original post, but I would like to go back to it if possible.
I think the strangest thing this person would see when they showed up to church on Sunday (they would probably show up of Saturday haha), would be the difference in the function if the pastor. I believe they would find it strange to see a “professional pastor” in a fixed location, drawing salary from a church, and living the good life. He would also probably find it very interesting to see the modern form of ministry many pastors follow, which for lack of better terminology can be call “sheep leading the shepherd.” He would probably very interested in our modern “democratic” form of church where everyone has a say and then we vote on what should occur (or some version of talking, voting, arguing, voting, gutting the original intent out of the measure, arguing, gossiping, voting again, pastor doing whatever the biggest tither/head deacon wants, gossiping some more, and then forgetting what the original proposal was.)
I believe that many ministers today are a far cry from what much of the Bible speaks of them being. That is not to say that many ministers are no passionately presenting God’s word on all fronts. However, I believe that ministers of that type are the exception rather that the norm. The really interesting thing is that I feel the blame can be put squarely on the shoulders of the regular church members (also on the seminary education many have, but that is for another day). The levels of integrity and ministry most churches hold their pastors to is not enough. We seem to feel that as long as our pastors are there for our every beck and call, they are doing their jobs. The problem is that when a pastor is doing their “job”, they are not necessarily being faithful to their ministry.
I can not imagine for the life of me Paul sitting down with the church members and taking a majority vote on what God’s next move for the church should be.
I would like to reiterate. I think that there are pastors and ministers out in the world doing God’s work and doing it well. I just think that someone who read the Bible, came to church, and then was debriefed on what they found different; would find the biggest difference in the style of church leadership we have now and the style defined in the Bible.
Hope all of you are well!
I have found this blog session to be very disturbing. The original intent, so I thought, was "Iron sharpening Iron". I saw this as, we as a group, work on our on weakness. If you read back over these posts, mostly what you see is alot of bitching about Preachers, deacons, church bodies, ball park activities and so on. Sure there are outside activities such as ball park that distract from church attendance, but there also are cases, where you and not interested in going because of who is preaching or because they arent offering the classes that would interest you. I ask and pray that each of you look back over his own post and reflect how your own comments relate to you. I started out working as a draftsman for an engineering firm. This means I design and draw mechanical equipment to be fabricated. The long feud between the shop and engineering goes way back. If there is a mistake on the drawings you want hear the end of it. The truth is, as an engineer you are starting with as little as a concept and are trying to create a working component. The shop sees problems as the component is being built. The moral of the story, "It is easy to criticize someone elses work, once it is being built" "It is easy to find flaws once all the work is completed.
Thank you Brad for you comments.
Paul
Paul,
I took your advice and went back to review what I had written. I whole heartedly stand by what I wrote. My last part of my comment summarizes my thoughts. Change begins in my own heart.
I support the church as an institution. It is established by God. However, do you think in general it is where it needs to be? I personally do not think the institution of the church is getting the job done. Additionally, I do not think that I as a church member am getting the job done. Part of that reason is because I listen to the masses of people who say, “We can’t do it that way,” “We can’t save the whole world,” “We do not have enough support, workers, resources, meeting space…(fill in the blank).” I think there are a lot of people in the church who have flickers of ideas that are quickly extinguished by, to play off of your work analogy, “company men.”
I don’t care about “worshiptainment” where I have to be entertained at church. However, we are talking about the most incredible, life changing events not just in this world but in all of eternity! If preaching is not passionate, teaching is not invoking, ministry that is not meeting the needs of our community not just our church members, if hearts are not bleeding for the unfortunate, eyes are not filled with tears, lives filled with an eternal joy, and we are not living Spirit filled lives that bring glory to God, then what are we doing?
I confess. I am a sinner that struggles with sin. I fall flat on my face often. However, I so want Christ living in me. I make no apologies over the things I said. My apologies is to Christ who I have so often failed because I “denominationalize” the simple truths of the gospel to fit my picture of what church and the Christian walk is all about. For 20 years I have been living the American Christian life of the American dream. I have a great job, family, three cars. I have never missed a meal. I have never been put under the heat of fire regarding my beliefs. If you look at my life, it will look just like every other person. I want to look more like Christ rather than to attend a Burger King church where members can “have it their way” because it fits their nice little picture of Christ. Bottom line, Christ didn’t live and worship the way we do nor did he ever command such.
I know there is no perfect church. I love my church and want to see it revived for the cause of Christ. If we cannot voice our hearts desires in this forum then where do we do it? Oh, we don’t. We just continue to do things the way we have always done and get what we have always gotten. Meanwhile, a populous goes to Hell.
Yes, I do believe this is how we sharpen the iron.
Looks like things are going good in my opinion. I would love to continue this discussion with a couple of things:
I believe with everything I am, this country needs the "early church" to be revived so Christ can be revealed.
It starts with me! The problem is I have sin in my life that is clogging up the "fountain of water" John 4:14 and John 7:37-38.
This keeps the gospel from flowing out of my life into others. I have to first clean out my heart and get back to the simple way of living a "Christian life".
Love God--Love others. Matthew 22:37-39. If I would just do this..........WOW........If I would just do this........Imagine.
It is so easy to say this is what someone else needs to do...when it is what I need to do. Its so easy to point a finger or a statement. Its not so easy to have that finger or statement pointed at me!
I think we rewrite the question. If a man is on an Island and read the Bible and then came to MY HOUSE would he see a true Christ follower?
Non-believers need to see Jesus.
I really dont think non-believers give a rip about how much I know. I can give them a bunch of seminary mumbo chumbo, but when it comes down to it, they just want to SEE Jesus in my life. We have tried to give this world our intellegence with our 3 piece suit, our degree hanging around our neck and it didnt work. Now we have people screaming out..SHOW ME!
The early church....Loved God and loved others....and oh yes,, in the middle of that...they were persecuted, and killed for doing so. And the Gospel spread like wildfire!
Paul,
I am not really sure I follow your analogy, but I think I know where you are coming from. Please do not confuse my post as complaints, but take them instead as constructive criticism. For years people have refused to even breach the important topics that keep their churches from realizing the potential God has for them. People skirt around topics that continue sin, and also hinder growth and the spread of God’s word. I choose not to skirt around those subjects.
Much of what is said on this blog may not be of immediate spiritual concern (I believe the confession of God and his love is much more important than the age of the Earth.) However, many topics that are brought forth are of immediate concern. Even more interesting to me is the response many postings get.
I also think our churches in general are jacked up. I think we are missing an entire generation because other generations have been reluctant to take up some of the major issues that face the church today. I think that we as Baptist are some of the worse when it comes to not dealing with these issues. This blog addresses these issues in many ways.
I am not griping, complaining, or putting the blame on others. I think I am part of the problem. I think I am also part of the solution. Unless a group of believers sits down and comes to term with some of the major problems facing the church today, we will find our children, and their children in a very bad shape. The bad news is that many in the church today simply refuse to address these issues, and even worse, simply label them as misguided complaints from people who aren’t really concerned with the best of the church.
That sits on me hard…..
Because I know what my motivation is…..
I am glad you guys are here and involved!
Keep sharpening!
Adios!
Very simple. We talk alot, but dont do anything. The early church didnt just talk they went out and showed the world Jesus Christ. They loved God and loved others. And, they didnt just love the ones that loved them back. It cant get more simple than that. And, I dont think we need to point our fingers at "the church" when the finger needs to be pointed at me.
Things will never change in this community/state/country, until "I" start DOING something about it.
God used ordinary people to change the world. He is still the same God today.
I say lets quit talking about whats wrong, and lets do something about it. Lets talk about what we can DO.
Maybe Im too simple minded for this blog. But, I will leave it with a question, What are you willing to do?
Mike
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