Within 24 hours this article was relayed to me by two great friends and two great minds. Read this article at the link below and give us your thoughts.
Good article and I agree, for the most part, with its premise. You see this lack of doctrinal knowledge and biblical understanding running rampant. For example, we stopped at the TX. welcome center on the way to Houston. Waiting for the kids I strike up a conversation with this young man in hopes of witnessing to him. He told me he was raised up in a Baptist Church. When I asked him how he knew he was saved he said, "because I know down deep that I have a good heart". I run into this consistantly when I witness to those who say they are "churched". Their answers are usually, "because I do good, or they give a list of what they don't do". Rarely do I ever get anyone who gives me a coherant biblically correct answer.
The writer mentions the point that Christianity prospers during times of trial. As difficult as it might be to stand on the front lines of this battle, I do believe that the fields are ripe with prospects. This economic disaster we are headed for is going to reveal misplaced faith for millions of people. The prosperity gospel is going to ring very hollow when the prosperity is fleeting. We must right now, be preparing ourselves and our children to stand up and fight like hell for the Word of God. (2 Cor. 10: 4,5) We must be willing to risk our own prosperity, our own church, our very lives if need be. If we don't we are not worthy of our savior. We have the truth, the question is will we have the guts to proclaim it no matter what it cost us. Personally, I believe many of us do, and I mean those in this group. We may just need a swift kick to get us out of our complacancy at times (and I often need to be the first one in line.) DON'T FRET JUST KEEP TELLING THE TRUTH.
Thanks Scott for your comments. I’m glad you are back with us and I up your trip to Texas was successful.
A couple of “iron sharpening” points I would like to comment on. You stated, “We must right now, be preparing ourselves and our children to stand up and fight like hell for the Word of God.” I think that is an oxymoron. I can’t fight any fight like hell would fight and be called a child of God, much less a fight for the Word of God. Hell fights with deception and in exact contradiction to the Word of God. Let’s rephrase and say we should be fighting like Christ for the Word of God.
Secondly, you stated, “If we don't we are not worthy of our savior.” Ephesians tells me that I’m never going to be worthy of our Savior. It’s only by His grace that I can even open my eyes each morning. My best hope is to fight a fight in a manner not to embarrass or disgrace Christ while representing Him as a “little Christ” in the best way that I can.
I understand your context for both of your statements. Please don’t think I’m trying to be “hollier than thou” and pick your comments to death. However, the intent of this blog is to sharpen one another. If our theology can’t be tested here how can it stand up in the world?
I invite all to closely examine anything that I post. I want it to pass through the fire of scrutiny by a brotherhood of believers.
I am glad the author used the term "Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity". Good, didn't Jesus tell us "The world will hate you because of me". As Christaian's we should be separate from the world. That is exacty what the problem is with church growth. We don't look any different from the world. The word tells us, God with separate the wheat from the chaff. It is time to be strong men of valor
This past sunday Bro. Chris mentioned a church in Sudan that had fox holes dug out side the church. You see, there is a radical group of muslins that actually shoot at the buildings. How many people would go to Sunday service if this was the case in our own churches?
Evangelicals can't articulate the Gospel with any coherence. (Does everyone agree this is spot on for the most part)? We Evangelicals have failed to pass on to our young people an orthodox form of faith that can take root and survive the secular onslaught.
We just completed a powerful revival at my church and one serman really stuck out. We have all heard "narrow is the path that leads to heaven, and broad is the path that leads to hell". Bro Lane, preached this warning was actually for the church.
Let us prepare our hearts and minds to enter the narrow gate and stand strong in our beliefs.
I read the article, and must admit, I disagree with much of his ideology, though I do see some trends leaning in the directions he spoke of. Most definitely, we are becoming a less "Christian" society, each and every day. You don't have to look very far, to see this. Just watch the evening news. And I would also agree that we are raising up a generation that is more focused on personal gratification (ie. excelling in sports, etc.) than on a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Bruce Wilkinson wrote an incredible study entitled The Three Chairs, that addresses these issues as well as anything I have ever seen. But, on the other side of this issue, the reactions of society are biblical, just as was foretold would take place. Yet, for 2000 years, skeptics have sought to stamp out the Gospel, yet have failed. Why? Is it because of Christians who stood up against them? Well, that may have played in to it, but I think it is bigger than that. The reason the Gospel has continued is because we serve a living God that can not be destroyed, contained, or "blotted" from society. Throughout the Old Testament, there always remained a remnant. May not have seemed much, may not have seemed effective, but it was a remnant. In other words, the work of the Lord kept on. So my personal belief is this: Until the day that the Eastern sky splits wide open, and the King of Glory comes to take His people home, then His gospel will continue on. And as long as I'm alive, I"m going to keep pressing on with Him, keep teaching my children to Press On, and keep preaching as loud as possible, the truths of the Word of God.
After reading this guy’s article I did a “google” search to check him out. He seems like the real deal. If anybody hears differently please forward. On his blog someone has written in and stated that he didn’t think Christianity will fade away. Nor do I and nor does he. He stated on his site that he does not believe it will go away but the numbers that call themselves Christians will fade.
So be it! I’m so tired of playing like a Christian, being part of groups that want to play church, and hearing about feel good junk. I need to be purified! Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not inviting hard times. I know many of you workout and exercise. Isn’t that the way we should be getting stronger in our Christian walk? We’ve got to be challenged, stretched, and pushed. I don’t need the fluff stuff. I’m too arrogant and prideful to grow from that. I need my views and opinions challenged by the good men of God…you guys!
Paul, the verse you spoke of has a special place in my heart. We were doing a study with a great husband and wife a couple of years ago and we spent some time on that verse. If 85% of Americans profess to be Christians, then how can few be entering the narrow gate. Either they are mistaken or Jesus was mistaken when he made the statement. Hmmmm.
I agree with this guys article, we are slipping in numbers.
But, I serve the great "I AM". Our God is way much bigger than this article, He is much bigger than any man's ideas about Him. The problem has been this, "Man thinks he can grow the church, man thinks he can get out and save".
We dont do any of these things. The problem is we have gotten so far away from God's word. We have added to it. We have made it entertaining, and flashy. When what it should be is a sword that cuts to our hearts. Hebrews 4. We have made it so it doesnt offend anyone.......but if you read the gospel Jesus offended some people, why? Because the gospel truth offends. We need to preach it. It doesnt need to be flashy or entertaining. Preach the word and let God work. We get these guys out of siminary who all they talk about is there degree and how much they know. We need some Peter's out there preaching. Holy Spirit filled men of God who preach the word, and what happened in Acts when Peter preached?.... You get my point?
I here what you are saying about playing church and all the fluff stuff, unfortunately or fortunately we are cut from the same cloth. We have Peter personalites, we pull our swords and cut people's ears off, but even in that example Jesus shows, that is not always the best way. Not all people are as confident and undertand the bible as well as you. This brings up the ever surfacing discussion concerning discipleship or the lack there off. I am not tired of the fluff or the people playing church, because they a babes in Christ still drinking milk. I have a problem with the majority of the church still on milk. The majority of people who want to separate the bible to suit there needs. The Bible is the word of God and there should be men of God rise up and menture young christians.
I also hear where you are comming from about being tested. I believe you answered the question to the true test and challenge earlier in this blog when you quoted Ephesians "We will never be worthy of our Savior, except by grace". If we want to be tested lets compare our lives to the example of Christ. God told me something during our revival. I am 36 years old, about half my life has passed. I know we are saved by grace and not works, but I got to thinking how the first half of my life looked to God. I can say, not very impressive. I can also give testimony concerning being tested. Everytime I think I have got my big sins licked, (Not that any sin is greater than the other, but each person has his on sinful snares)I fall, thus showing me how much of a sinner I am and how much I hate sin. During this time, Grace steps in and tells me "You are mine and you should know this because you hate sin as much as I do" "Even a good many falls seven times, but he get up again"
Great points by all. Paul: We definitely have a Peter mentality don't we? Thanks for reminding me about the babes in church. I agree, the true babes in Christ are not the problem. It is the "adults", as you said, that are still on milk.And by the way, I do understand what you are talking about licking the "big" sins and only have them rear their head again.
Mike: We do serve a greater God than any numbers or church growth campaign. Well said about the truth. When sermons quite piercing and cutting then the Sword should be sharpened.
Phillip, Your response was valid and your points well taken. I would rather have had that sincere response because those make us look deeper into what we say and how we say it. In other words, Words Matter. I get frustrated from time to time and probably fired that off without humbly and prayerfully considering my choice of words. The complacency I see drives me crazy, although it was not that long ago I too was one of the many who had just added Jesus to my life and not made him the Lord of my life. Scripture does instruct us to "walk worthy of the calling to which we are called" (Eph. 4:1) However, I might have done well to examine the next 3 or 4 verses and my response might have been worded better. When I say "fight like hell" I mean that in the context of matching the intensity with which the enemy goes after people. Too many Christian, and I include the leaders, are too quick to comprimise biblical principles, to vauge and weak in their responses to hard questions, and therefore create and atmosphere where many are in danger of creating a god that doesn't really exist but meets their need for a god. Please don't misunderstand me as just someone who is raving about what is wrong. God has and is doing amazing things in our lives and I am not at all bitter toward the ministry. Being a full time servant of God is what I should have been doing since I was 13 years old. There are things that are right the church and its people, and God is mightly at work in the lives of those we all see every day. It's amazing, and I want more people to see just how real and righteous God is. I want them to to have the faith to believe the Unbelievable.
By the way, We are going to Baytown TX the first week of May. I will be working on staff at Memorial Baptist Church and Lisa will be teach bible classes as we are going through a program we believe God will use to better prepare us for His calling. (Memorialbaytown.org) Thanks for asking and you just keep sharping me all you need brother, I respect you and your desire to grow in God's Word.
Sorry it has been a while since I commented….but here goes.
Not completely on topic, however.
I believe this is a very insightful article. I agree with some of it, but not all of it. Enough of this article strikes me as true to make me scared. Scared for our country, scared for our children, but not scared for our faith. Let me qualify that statement.
Point 1
“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.” (Spenser: Coming Evangelical Collapse).
I think this statement is the backbone of the entire article. Conservatives today are fighting a flood of sinful initiatives which threaten to impact our faith if they continue to progress. Gay marriage and abortion are two of the many that come to mind. However, how will these initiatives really impact us? Conservative Christians in the 1800’s used slavery as the breaking point in their fight against liberalism. To the extent that the Southern Baptist broke away from the Triennial Convention in order to prove their support for slavery and disdain for women playing large roles in the church. Some claim that the division was more of a regional issue, but who are we kidding?
Now we face similar devastating issues. How will gay marriage being approved by our government truly impact our Faith or the continuation of the Evangelical church style we enjoy today? Do not mistake my comparison of gay marriage and slavery as an approval of either. I abhor them both, but found the similarities in conservatism interesting. A family friend asked during the Bush/ Kerry race’ “Can I be a Christian and be a Liberal?” Good question.
Point 2
“There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile. Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.” (Spenser: Coming Evangelical Collapse)
I believe the focus on this section lies in the mention of denominations. Face it; as a group of believers, we will split at the drop of a hat. If you believe we should serve catfish on Wednesday night at the fellowship supper, while I believe that meatloaf is more appropriate, we could find ourselves at the bottom of a church splitting controversy. Spenser believes that denominations will shrink and vanish. However, I believe we will see more and more denominations. Churches are currently looking to split off from other, further diminishing the strength of a group of believers. Even a church who has labeled itself “Nondenominational” can now count on being a denomination all of its own. We have no one to blame but ourselves as believers. I have been told and even said to friends myself, “You have got to find a church that fits you and your families.” Is that good advice? Or are we encouraging even further splitting of the church? This practice began with a little event called the Reformation. You may say to yourself that I am crazy to compare this to the Reformation. You may say that the Reformation was about serious spiritual doctrinal issues such as salvation by faith and priesthood of the believer. You are right. Those were major issues in the Reformation, but we come up with more “major theological and doctrinal” issues that cause churches to split every year. The Reformation was not wrong we have just lost sight of the spirit it was begun in.
In an earlier post Scott C. wrote about the perseverance of the church in areas where the gospel is the faith is prohibited. He is right. Asia (particularly China, Indonesia, and Southwest Asia) is seeing more believers convert to Christianity than ever before. Why? I believe it is because it cost something to be a believer there. Possibly your life and that of your families. They have no time with denominational squabbles. They are always focusing on bringing more people into the flock and spreading God’s great news.
I am sorry if I am stepping on toes with this response, but I believe this guy hit the nail on the head. I know the finer points can be debated, but the overall theme and idea of the article rings true to me. Europe is currently filled with cathedrals that sit empty except for tourist that come to snap pictures. I believe that America is heading that way. Several of your guys have mentioned the need for Peter’s brand of preaching. I think we have it…..I just think we seldom live it.
As I wrote before I am not scared for our faith. Mike said and I would like to echo “We serve a big God.” Therefore our God will always be there. We just have to truly seek him.
Sorry for the length. I think I will stop now….my own toes are sore!
Well said Coach. One point: On this blog you don't have to worry about stepping on toes; or as Proverbs says, "sharpening iron." Thanks for your thoughts.
One further point… Spenser writes about evangelical Christians not gaining a true foothold in the educational arena. Very true. Sure, you have your Christian schools. Some of them are large and some are small but most of them have a few things in common. If they are hugely successful, then they are most likely Catholic. The Catholic Church and the Jesuits single handedly converted most of the south/central American area simply by building schools and teaching. Jesuits, who are whole heartedly devoted to Catholic education, have built some of the best schools in the world. This has paid dividends for the Catholic Church in the long run. Non-Christian schools are most likely poorly staffed and underfunded at best, dumping grounds for public schools problem children at worst. These schools can’t afford to hire truly qualified instructors, and miss out on many of the initiatives and opportunities public schools offer. There are a few exceptions that come to mind (Briarwood, Westbrook, Sumiton), but most fall into the previously mentioned categories. I think a church that can put a school product out there that is truly effective can be very successful, and greatly enlarge God’s kingdom by doing so.
One further point… Spenser writes about evangelical Christians not gaining a true foothold in the educational arena. Very true. Sure, you have your Christian schools. Some of them are large and some are small but most of them have a few things in common. If they are hugely successful, then they are most likely Catholic. The Catholic Church and the Jesuits single handedly converted most of the south/central American area simply by building schools and teaching. Jesuits, who are whole heartedly devoted to Catholic education, have built some of the best schools in the world. This has paid dividends for the Catholic Church in the long run. Non-Christian schools are most likely poorly staffed and underfunded at best, dumping grounds for public schools problem children at worst. These schools can’t afford to hire truly qualified instructors, and miss out on many of the initiatives and opportunities public schools offer. There are a few exceptions that come to mind (Briarwood, Westbrook, Sumiton), but most fall into the previously mentioned categories. I think a church that can put a school product out there that is truly effective can be very successful, and greatly enlarge God’s kingdom by doing so.
In chapter 12 the writer of Hebrews issues Christians a challenge to run the race of faith. In order to do so we must lay aside every encumbrance and sin that so easily entangles us. We have to learn to run with endurance and keep our eyes fixed on our example, Jesus Christ. How do we accomplish this in our society? We lock arms with other men of faith and run the race.
This blog is dedicated to a “technical” approach to locking arms. This blog is dedicated to online book studies for men. We will read certain chapters from chosen books. Then we will post comments to encourage, inspire, and in some cases stir up other men. So, you are invited to join our online discussion. More importantly, will you accept the challenge to run the race of faith?
13 comments:
Good article and I agree, for the most part, with its premise. You see this lack of doctrinal knowledge and biblical understanding running rampant. For example, we stopped at the TX. welcome center on the way to Houston. Waiting for the kids I strike up a conversation with this young man in hopes of witnessing to him. He told me he was raised up in a Baptist Church. When I asked him how he knew he was saved he said, "because I know down deep that I have a good heart". I run into this consistantly when I witness to those who say they are "churched". Their answers are usually, "because I do good, or they give a list of what they don't do". Rarely do I ever get anyone who gives me a coherant biblically correct answer.
The writer mentions the point that Christianity prospers during times of trial. As difficult as it might be to stand on the front lines of this battle, I do believe that the fields are ripe with prospects. This economic disaster we are headed for is going to reveal misplaced faith for millions of people. The prosperity gospel is going to ring very hollow when the prosperity is fleeting.
We must right now, be preparing ourselves and our children to stand up and fight like hell for the Word of God. (2 Cor. 10: 4,5) We must be willing to risk our own prosperity, our own church, our very lives if need be. If we don't we are not worthy of our savior. We have the truth, the question is will we have the guts to proclaim it no matter what it cost us. Personally, I believe many of us do, and I mean those in this group. We may just need a swift kick to get us out of our complacancy at times (and I often need to be the first one in line.)
DON'T FRET JUST KEEP TELLING THE TRUTH.
Scott
Thanks Scott for your comments. I’m glad you are back with us and I up your trip to Texas was successful.
A couple of “iron sharpening” points I would like to comment on.
You stated, “We must right now, be preparing ourselves and our children to stand up and fight like hell for the Word of God.” I think that is an oxymoron. I can’t fight any fight like hell would fight and be called a child of God, much less a fight for the Word of God. Hell fights with deception and in exact contradiction to the Word of God. Let’s rephrase and say we should be fighting like Christ for the Word of God.
Secondly, you stated, “If we don't we are not worthy of our savior.” Ephesians tells me that I’m never going to be worthy of our Savior. It’s only by His grace that I can even open my eyes each morning. My best hope is to fight a fight in a manner not to embarrass or disgrace Christ while representing Him as a “little Christ” in the best way that I can.
I understand your context for both of your statements. Please don’t think I’m trying to be “hollier than thou” and pick your comments to death. However, the intent of this blog is to sharpen one another. If our theology can’t be tested here how can it stand up in the world?
I invite all to closely examine anything that I post. I want it to pass through the fire of scrutiny by a brotherhood of believers.
I am glad the author used the term "Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity". Good, didn't Jesus tell us "The world will hate you because of me". As Christaian's we should be separate from the world. That is exacty what the problem is with church growth. We don't look any different from the world. The word tells us, God with separate the wheat from the chaff. It is time to be strong men of valor
This past sunday Bro. Chris mentioned a church in Sudan that had fox holes dug out side the church. You see, there is a radical group of muslins that actually shoot at the buildings. How many people would go to Sunday service if this was the case in our own churches?
Evangelicals can't articulate the Gospel with any coherence. (Does everyone agree this is spot on for the most part)? We Evangelicals have failed to pass on to our young people an orthodox form of faith that can take root and survive the secular onslaught.
We just completed a powerful revival at my church and one serman really stuck out. We have all heard "narrow is the path that leads to heaven, and broad is the path that leads to hell". Bro Lane, preached this warning was actually for the church.
Let us prepare our hearts and minds to enter the narrow gate and stand strong in our beliefs.
Paul
I read the article, and must admit, I disagree with much of his ideology, though I do see some trends leaning in the directions he spoke of. Most definitely, we are becoming a less "Christian" society, each and every day. You don't have to look very far, to see this. Just watch the evening news. And I would also agree that we are raising up a generation that is more focused on personal gratification (ie. excelling in sports, etc.) than on a deep personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Bruce Wilkinson wrote an incredible study entitled The Three Chairs, that addresses these issues as well as anything I have ever seen. But, on the other side of this issue, the reactions of society are biblical, just as was foretold would take place. Yet, for 2000 years, skeptics have sought to stamp out the Gospel, yet have failed. Why? Is it because of Christians who stood up against them? Well, that may have played in to it, but I think it is bigger than that. The reason the Gospel has continued is because we serve a living God that can not be destroyed, contained, or "blotted" from society. Throughout the Old Testament, there always remained a remnant. May not have seemed much, may not have seemed effective, but it was a remnant. In other words, the work of the Lord kept on. So my personal belief is this: Until the day that the Eastern sky splits wide open, and the King of Glory comes to take His people home, then His gospel will continue on. And as long as I'm alive, I"m going to keep pressing on with Him, keep teaching my children to Press On, and keep preaching as loud as possible, the truths of the Word of God.
Brad
After reading this guy’s article I did a “google” search to check him out. He seems like the real deal. If anybody hears differently please forward. On his blog someone has written in and stated that he didn’t think Christianity will fade away. Nor do I and nor does he. He stated on his site that he does not believe it will go away but the numbers that call themselves Christians will fade.
So be it! I’m so tired of playing like a Christian, being part of groups that want to play church, and hearing about feel good junk. I need to be purified! Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not inviting hard times. I know many of you workout and exercise. Isn’t that the way we should be getting stronger in our Christian walk? We’ve got to be challenged, stretched, and pushed. I don’t need the fluff stuff. I’m too arrogant and prideful to grow from that. I need my views and opinions challenged by the good men of God…you guys!
Paul, the verse you spoke of has a special place in my heart. We were doing a study with a great husband and wife a couple of years ago and we spent some time on that verse. If 85% of Americans profess to be Christians, then how can few be entering the narrow gate. Either they are mistaken or Jesus was mistaken when he made the statement. Hmmmm.
I agree with this guys article, we are slipping in numbers.
But, I serve the great "I AM". Our God is way much bigger than this article, He is much bigger than any man's ideas about Him. The problem has been this, "Man thinks he can grow the church, man thinks he can get out and save".
We dont do any of these things. The problem is we have gotten so far away from God's word. We have added to it. We have made it entertaining, and flashy. When what it should be is a sword that cuts to our hearts. Hebrews 4. We have made it so it doesnt offend anyone.......but if you read the gospel Jesus offended some people, why? Because the gospel truth offends. We need to preach it. It doesnt need to be flashy or entertaining. Preach the word and let God work. We get these guys out of siminary who all they talk about is there degree and how much they know. We need some Peter's out there preaching. Holy Spirit filled men of God who preach the word, and what happened in Acts when Peter preached?.... You get my point?
Phillip,
I here what you are saying about playing church and all the fluff stuff, unfortunately or fortunately we are cut from the same cloth. We have Peter personalites, we pull our swords and cut people's ears off, but even in that example Jesus shows, that is not always the best way. Not all people are as confident and undertand the bible as well as you. This brings up the ever surfacing discussion concerning discipleship or the lack there off. I am not tired of the fluff or the people playing church, because they a babes in Christ still drinking milk. I have a problem with the majority of the church still on milk. The majority of people who want to separate the bible to suit there needs. The Bible is the word of God and there should be men of God rise up and menture young christians.
I also hear where you are comming from about being tested. I believe you answered the question to the true test and challenge earlier in this blog when you quoted Ephesians "We will never be worthy of our Savior, except by grace". If we want to be tested lets compare our lives to the example of Christ. God told me something during our revival. I am 36 years old, about half my life has passed. I know we are saved by grace and not works, but I got to thinking how the first half of my life looked to God. I can say, not very impressive. I can also give testimony concerning being tested. Everytime I think I have got my big sins licked, (Not that any sin is greater than the other, but each person has his on sinful snares)I fall, thus showing me how much of a sinner I am and how much I hate sin. During this time, Grace steps in and tells me "You are mine and you should know this because you hate sin as much as I do" "Even a good many falls seven times, but he get up again"
Good stuff
Paul
Great points by all. Paul: We definitely have a Peter mentality don't we? Thanks for reminding me about the babes in church. I agree, the true babes in Christ are not the problem. It is the "adults", as you said, that are still on milk.And by the way, I do understand what you are talking about licking the "big" sins and only have them rear their head again.
Mike: We do serve a greater God than any numbers or church growth campaign. Well said about the truth. When sermons quite piercing and cutting then the Sword should be sharpened.
Keep up the great posts!
Phillip,
Your response was valid and your points well taken. I would rather have had that sincere response because those make us look deeper into what we say and how we say it. In other words, Words Matter.
I get frustrated from time to time and probably fired that off without humbly and prayerfully considering my choice of words.
The complacency I see drives me crazy, although it was not that long ago I too was one of the many who had just added Jesus to my life and not made him the Lord of my life.
Scripture does instruct us to "walk worthy of the calling to which we are called" (Eph. 4:1) However, I might have done well to examine the next 3 or 4 verses and my response might have been worded better.
When I say "fight like hell" I mean that in the context of matching the intensity with which the enemy goes after people. Too many Christian, and I include the leaders, are too quick to comprimise biblical principles, to vauge and weak in their responses to hard questions, and therefore create and atmosphere where many are in danger of creating a god that doesn't really exist but meets their need for a god.
Please don't misunderstand me as just someone who is raving about what is wrong. God has and is doing amazing things in our lives and I am not at all bitter toward the ministry. Being a full time servant of God is what I should have been doing since I was 13 years old. There are things that are right the church and its people, and God is mightly at work in the lives of those we all see every day. It's amazing, and I want more people to see just how real and righteous God is. I want them to to have the faith to believe the Unbelievable.
By the way, We are going to Baytown TX the first week of May. I will be working on staff at Memorial Baptist Church and Lisa will be teach bible classes as we are going through a program we believe God will use to better prepare us for His calling. (Memorialbaytown.org)
Thanks for asking and you just keep sharping me all you need brother, I respect you and your desire to grow in God's Word.
Your Brother in Christ,
Scott
Sorry it has been a while since I commented….but here goes.
Not completely on topic, however.
I believe this is a very insightful article. I agree with some of it, but not all of it. Enough of this article strikes me as true to make me scared. Scared for our country, scared for our children, but not scared for our faith. Let me qualify that statement.
Point 1
“Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism. This will prove to be a very costly mistake. Evangelicals will increasingly be seen as a threat to cultural progress. Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.” (Spenser: Coming Evangelical Collapse).
I think this statement is the backbone of the entire article. Conservatives today are fighting a flood of sinful initiatives which threaten to impact our faith if they continue to progress. Gay marriage and abortion are two of the many that come to mind. However, how will these initiatives really impact us? Conservative Christians in the 1800’s used slavery as the breaking point in their fight against liberalism. To the extent that the Southern Baptist broke away from the Triennial Convention in order to prove their support for slavery and disdain for women playing large roles in the church. Some claim that the division was more of a regional issue, but who are we kidding?
Now we face similar devastating issues. How will gay marriage being approved by our government truly impact our Faith or the continuation of the Evangelical church style we enjoy today? Do not mistake my comparison of gay marriage and slavery as an approval of either. I abhor them both, but found the similarities in conservatism interesting. A family friend asked during the Bush/ Kerry race’ “Can I be a Christian and be a Liberal?” Good question.
Point 2
“There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile. Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.” (Spenser: Coming Evangelical Collapse)
I believe the focus on this section lies in the mention of denominations. Face it; as a group of believers, we will split at the drop of a hat. If you believe we should serve catfish on Wednesday night at the fellowship supper, while I believe that meatloaf is more appropriate, we could find ourselves at the bottom of a church splitting controversy. Spenser believes that denominations will shrink and vanish. However, I believe we will see more and more denominations. Churches are currently looking to split off from other, further diminishing the strength of a group of believers. Even a church who has labeled itself “Nondenominational” can now count on being a denomination all of its own. We have no one to blame but ourselves as believers. I have been told and even said to friends myself, “You have got to find a church that fits you and your families.” Is that good advice? Or are we encouraging even further splitting of the church? This practice began with a little event called the Reformation. You may say to yourself that I am crazy to compare this to the Reformation. You may say that the Reformation was about serious spiritual doctrinal issues such as salvation by faith and priesthood of the believer. You are right. Those were major issues in the Reformation, but we come up with more “major theological and doctrinal” issues that cause churches to split every year. The Reformation was not wrong we have just lost sight of the spirit it was begun in.
In an earlier post Scott C. wrote about the perseverance of the church in areas where the gospel is the faith is prohibited. He is right. Asia (particularly China, Indonesia, and Southwest Asia) is seeing more believers convert to Christianity than ever before. Why? I believe it is because it cost something to be a believer there. Possibly your life and that of your families. They have no time with denominational squabbles. They are always focusing on bringing more people into the flock and spreading God’s great news.
I am sorry if I am stepping on toes with this response, but I believe this guy hit the nail on the head. I know the finer points can be debated, but the overall theme and idea of the article rings true to me. Europe is currently filled with cathedrals that sit empty except for tourist that come to snap pictures. I believe that America is heading that way. Several of your guys have mentioned the need for Peter’s brand of preaching. I think we have it…..I just think we seldom live it.
As I wrote before I am not scared for our faith. Mike said and I would like to echo “We serve a big God.” Therefore our God will always be there. We just have to truly seek him.
Sorry for the length. I think I will stop now….my own toes are sore!
Well said Coach. One point: On this blog you don't have to worry about stepping on toes; or as Proverbs says, "sharpening iron." Thanks for your thoughts.
One further point…
Spenser writes about evangelical Christians not gaining a true foothold in the educational arena. Very true. Sure, you have your Christian schools. Some of them are large and some are small but most of them have a few things in common. If they are hugely successful, then they are most likely Catholic. The Catholic Church and the Jesuits single handedly converted most of the south/central American area simply by building schools and teaching. Jesuits, who are whole heartedly devoted to Catholic education, have built some of the best schools in the world. This has paid dividends for the Catholic Church in the long run.
Non-Christian schools are most likely poorly staffed and underfunded at best, dumping grounds for public schools problem children at worst. These schools can’t afford to hire truly qualified instructors, and miss out on many of the initiatives and opportunities public schools offer. There are a few exceptions that come to mind (Briarwood, Westbrook, Sumiton), but most fall into the previously mentioned categories. I think a church that can put a school product out there that is truly effective can be very successful, and greatly enlarge God’s kingdom by doing so.
One further point…
Spenser writes about evangelical Christians not gaining a true foothold in the educational arena. Very true. Sure, you have your Christian schools. Some of them are large and some are small but most of them have a few things in common. If they are hugely successful, then they are most likely Catholic. The Catholic Church and the Jesuits single handedly converted most of the south/central American area simply by building schools and teaching. Jesuits, who are whole heartedly devoted to Catholic education, have built some of the best schools in the world. This has paid dividends for the Catholic Church in the long run.
Non-Christian schools are most likely poorly staffed and underfunded at best, dumping grounds for public schools problem children at worst. These schools can’t afford to hire truly qualified instructors, and miss out on many of the initiatives and opportunities public schools offer. There are a few exceptions that come to mind (Briarwood, Westbrook, Sumiton), but most fall into the previously mentioned categories. I think a church that can put a school product out there that is truly effective can be very successful, and greatly enlarge God’s kingdom by doing so.
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